Zach updates us on his job search and Jeff talks about his awakening experience in 2013 that changed his life. They discuss depression, habit change, morning routines, meditation, and the decision to leave his old life behind.
Episode 7 of the We Should Be Working Podcast. Zach updates us on his job search and Jeff talks about his awakening experience in 2013 that changed his life. They discuss depression, habit change, morning routines, meditation, and the decision to leave his old life behind.
Episode Summary
Zach and Jeff go over personal work updates including Zach's frustrations with his job search and his unique skill set in marketing and training. Jeff shares his own job search experiences and the difficulties he encounters in finding the right opportunity. They discuss the importance of being persistent and the boundaries of professional communication. The conversation also touches on managing stress and anxiety, as well as the different approaches Zach and Jeff take in dealing with their racing thoughts. Finally, Jeff reflects on his journey and the decision to leave Go Media. Jeff's talks about his experience with feeling overwhelmed and depressed, the impact of work and personal life on his mental health, finding support and coping mechanisms, and the inspiration he has found in books and other content for personal growth. Thrash on!
00:00 Introduction and Discussion of March Madness
10:29 Jeff's Creative Accomplishments and Financial Insecurity
29:41 Living in the Present Moment and Seeking Support
37:18 Overcoming Overwhelm and Apathy
46:16 Biting Off More Than You Can Chew
53:01 The Power of Meditation and Morning Routines
59:48 Inspirations of the Week
Zach Hendrix (00:03.054)
you
Zach Hendrix (00:13.07)
Welcome to week seven of we should be working. I'm Zach Hendricks. That's Jeff Finley, as hopefully you all know. Jeff, how you doing? Good to see you again. Happy to be back again. Yes. Good to see you, Zach. Happy Monday. Um, it's been an interesting week, mostly Kara and I've been obsessed with March Madness. Basketball season is here. Um, so we love the women's basketball game. We've been watching that. So now I'm back on a Monday. Well, we still got games tonight, but getting back to the.
the real world, so to speak. So do you still do a bracket for like women's basketball and all of that as well? Yeah, yeah, we do it. And this used to just be her and I and maybe her mom. Um, but now we've met some other people who we got into it and there's like three or four other people that are also doing brackets and they're like, oh my God, this is crazy. We were all following these particular players and, um, like getting into it for the first time. And, you know, it's funny cause we care. And I've been into it for me about four, four and a half years. And so we're.
following, you know, these players as freshmen all the way up into high school and, and he's getting to see the excitement of these new newcomers is pretty fun too. And my bracket sucks though. I was going to say, how's your bracket doing? It's terrible. I think I'm in like, I think I've got like a 40 % rate or something like that. Yeah, I was, uh, I was over at a friend's house. Uh, our kids are on spring break. So we were hanging out and I was over there as his bracket was falling apart.
Like I walked in the door as the team that he picked to win went out in the first round. Uh, and I was like, Oh, that's, that's not so good. He goes, no. And I saw his bracket. I was like, you've got like two, two picks that are, uh, that one it's, uh, going pretty bad for you. How's your, how's your work situation panning out this week? Any new developments? Not, not good. I mean, I guess it depends on your perspective. I had some more.
Interviews last week and I think I talked about last week that I had one That went well and it was for a company that I I really liked quite a bit and they seemed to have a really good culture a really good fit and then From the way that it sounds like it sounds like they found me late in the game. The recruiter found me late in the game so anyway, I get a have to talk with the recruiter and similar story as before like went good and like yeah, you know, I'm
Zach Hendrix (02:34.222)
love to push you forward. You're going to be interviewing with all of these people. It's going to be the higher ups at the company. Here's our process. You know, it is a little bit longer, but you're probably going to have like three to four more interviews. Some will be one on one. Some will be panels. And I'm like, okay, sounds good. So she's like, but I'm going to be out, you know, this weekend, but I'll be checking my email. So you'll either hear back from me or the person that's standing in for me. And I'm like,
Man, really appreciate the check -in, your dedication to this. That sounds great. Get back. Don't hear anything. I'm like, okay. Wait a couple of days. Don't hear anything. And I'm like, all right, well, I'm just going to reach out, hopefully in a non -annoying way. And she wrote me back right away, which was good. And I appreciate it. And was like, look, uh,
They've decided that they don't really want to move forward with anybody else at this time. And so really this recruiter found me late in the game and I was like, well, is there anything I can do to get my name top of the list? And she's like, not really. She goes, I recommended that they move forward with you. I think that you'd be a great fit here, but you know, there sounds like they're just trying to move forward with who they have. And the hiring manager, she had told me before is going to be out of town on sabbatical soon. So I'm like,
I'm guessing for her, she's already started this process. She wants to finish before she goes on break and all of that. So she's like, I don't want to bring new people in, just let's finish with what we have. And so I'm like, now this job that I'm like, I would be, I'm like a perfect fit for them. And again, with some of my skillset, I'm a got very niche skillset that not a lot of people have the background that I do. And so.
It was disappointing that I'm like, oh man, this was going to be great. And I had no idea. And this would be, you know, a good step in the right direction for me, company that I like and company that could use somebody like me as well. It seemed like a perfect fit, but so now it looks like that's just done and gone. And I'm like, man, you couldn't spare like 30 minutes to just chat with me and be like, please just.
Zach Hendrix (04:46.99)
see how much better I am than everybody else out there. And if you tell me, no, you're not that much better than perfect. Fine. Done. I'll call it. But, you know, it's odd to me when you are at, you know, your I'm at the mercy of the recruiter and the recruiters at the mercy of them. So you have the person doing their job. Their job is to recruit people and bring them in. And you have them recommending people and hiring managers like, no, I don't care. You're like, OK, well, then maybe I don't want to work at this place that they, you know, they can't.
listen to that person and be like, no, you just really take a look at them and you don't want to. So I'm like, it's, it's difficult. So Zach, you, you mentioned having a, um, specific skillset that you believe is pretty valuable and you believe that you're the best candidate for this job. So just, you know, for those listening, what is that skillset? And, uh, in case anybody wants to hire you. Exactly. Yeah. In case anybody's listening.
So I have a, it's weird, but I have a, my skillset is in mostly video production, but from a marketing and advertising point of view. So I've done a lot of product marketing and even, you know, company marketing. So I worked for a big TV broadcaster. I worked for a company called Dish Network and was running their commercial broadcast campaigns, making their commercials and TV commercials and all that. And then I've done a bunch of work for ad agencies and billing.
building their videos and building all that. Now, the other skill set that I have that kind of is what makes me a unique candidate is in training and development. So I've gone back and forth between marketing and training and development. And what's great is when I find jobs, which almost never ever happens, where you're putting those two together, where somebody has a really strong mindset of, hey, I really want to use marketing.
marketing techniques, video production techniques, and incorporate them into my training. That's when I really thrive. And so this was a company that has media production, live events, all of that, looking for a person to recommend, where do we take our training program? And I'm like, well, that's me to a T. Like you're not going to find anybody that fits better than me for this. And really because it's, and this is actually, I'm really glad that you bring this up because it's really, really difficult.
Zach Hendrix (07:13.358)
for me to talk about to employers. And so even talking about it right now, it makes me a little bit nervous is that when I go to media production companies and advertising people, I don't talk to them about the training because they tend to look down on that. They go, oh, you did training work. You must not be very good then. Marketing and advertising people, I tend to find out for the most part, have a big chip on their shoulder that it's like, if you didn't ever work in an ad agency,
You don't fit in in our club and you can't do our job. And it's like, no, I just never really wanted to work there. I'll let you guys hire me. You'll hire me to do your work. But because I never worked there, now you think I don't know what it is or how it works or that I'm not as good as you or anything like that. A lot of them tend to have a big chip on their shoulder. And so if they ever found out that I was working in training, they'd be like, oh, well, that's not very good. Training videos aren't big. You're not working for big brands. You've never been.
nationally broadcasts. I'm like, no, actually I have made a Superbowl commercial before. I've had many broadcasts. I've had award -winning and nominated videos that is done out there, but you're already putting me down because you think I worked in trading. And then trading can kind of do the opposite where they go, you don't really understand training techniques. You've worked in marketing and advertising. You're going to get bored over here or this or that.
We have a specific skill set. It's not marketing and stuff like that. And they tend to kind of put each other down. So to my training crowd, I only talk about training and to my marketing crowd, I talk about marketing and video production, but they usually don't overlap. And that's the thing when I find people that do have really big vision and some of the smartest people I've ever worked with, that's how they work. Like I had a, I had a boss one time, probably the smartest guy I ever worked for.
He goes, look, I've tried to work with my internal marketing team. They don't want to work with me or do any work. So I'm going to hire my own team and do hire my own internal ad agency. And we're going to do this ourselves, but it's going to be training focused. That was some of the best work that I ever did. And some of the most creative work that I ever did. We're still hiring actors. We're still on sets. We're still traveling. We're still doing all of this stuff. Amazing locations. Like I'm still shooting out on beaches. Um, it doesn't have to be.
Zach Hendrix (09:33.55)
You know what we all think of corporate training and that was his mindset. And so, um, that's a little bit of my background as well. And so that's, you know, that's kind of my struggle then as well. When I get into these places, as far as, you know, now you want to talk about my LinkedIn page. Is it more training focused or is it more marketing focus? But really it's going to be not updated because I don't want the marketing people to see my training background and I don't want the training people.
to see my marketing background. So I keep it vague on purpose so that when I send a marketing resume out, while it's all still very true and factual, it's not, it doesn't look anything like my training, my training resume. So now I'm making multiple resumes and all of that. So that's another part of my frustration and working right now or not having a job trying to figure all this out. Well, cool. Hopefully somebody hears that and they're like, Oh, I totally get it. Yeah.
You know, yeah, exactly. I was like, just look at the work, not at not at what it is and all that. So, you know, it kind of reminds me of what I was saying a couple of weeks ago where it was too bad. You know, a recruiter was all ready to move me forward with a job. And then he goes, sorry, they're not willing to overlook that you don't have a degree. And I'm like, yeah, I never finished my degree. I went to film school. I was there. I did all that. And I left by choice because I knew my degree wasn't going to be worthwhile in the film business.
But apparently it would be worthwhile in other industries. And it's like, they didn't care anything about my background or experience. They just wanted me to have a piece of paper. And that's discouraging as well. Where it's like - It's not for you, not the right fit, I guess. Exactly. No, it would not be the right fit for me. So I was in some ways, while I was disappointed that that mindset still exists, I'm happy that I don't have to go work for those people that think that they're better than anybody else because they've got a diploma.
Or a degree or something like that. I'm like, I just want to look at your work. Is your work good? Yeah, then let's work together. I don't care what certification you have Unless you're a doctor medical doctor, please I need I need you to actually be certified and not just figured out how to do surgery off the street That I would prefer Anyway, so as far as work goes for you anything you should be working on or did work on Well
Zach Hendrix (11:56.974)
I mean, this week I kind of had, um, a little bit of a panic. This, you know, I felt like I've got a, we have a great, I'm, I'm sorry. I'm accomplishing a lot of my creative goals, you know, like I'm doing this podcast with you. I feel great about doing that and putting it out there. Um, I've been reviving all of my old box of milk music and putting that out there. And it's more of an archival project, but it feels like, you know, working on something that, that means something to you and you finish it and how good that really feels, you know? So that's part of me is like, I'm very accomplished.
But then as soon as I'm done with that, this creeping dread comes back into my mind that says, yeah, but none of that's going to pay the bills. You're not doing what you should be doing. You should be out there looking for jobs. You should, you know, there's a sheets opening up around the corner while, you know, you could apply there. And I'm like, ah, I don't want to work there. And I'm like, should I work there? Is that what I have to do in my stage of my life? Or I have to like go back and work these jobs because I've, I've, I've built up an ego of myself and says I'm better than that. And I need to humble myself and go, go do that. And I'm like,
Who knows if they would even hire me? That's assuming that they would even hire me. And speaking of which, I started looking at, I'm on Craigslist and I don't know if I said this before, but I had saw a job up in Akron for, it was an apparel company looking for illustrators and designers, you know? And I was like, all right, I think I'm perfect for that. You know, I don't really want to be a -
premiere graphic designer illustrator necessarily for the rest of my life, but like that's my skillset and I can totally offer it to somebody who's willing to pay in a day. You know, whatever. So I sent him a nice email, very authentic link to my stuff, linked to my book that I wrote about the apparel industry. You know, I feel like I've got the credentials. Um, but I wasn't sure if it was a remote or if it was in person. So I'm like, do you offer remote? Well, I mean, I never got a reply, so I'll never know. And.
And I'm like, man, I thought it was perfect for that, but you know, so I'm putting feelers out there. I'll email somebody. I'll send an email. Like I had a, a web developer that I used to know a long time ago. I messaged him. I think I heard, I saw something on Twitter. He referenced my old website from a, from like a long time ago. It was like part of Grunge design. And I was like, Oh my God, I forgot. I remember that guy. So I sent him an email saying like, Hey dude, that's so cool. Long time no see. How you doing? And so he reached out back to me and was like,
Zach Hendrix (14:11.278)
Dude, this is so cool, Jeff. Yeah. I'd love to be able to collaborate sometime. I'm like, awesome. And he's doing amazing web development. Like he's on the cutting edge of web development, you know? So I see him. He's got a podcast too. I love what he's doing. So I said, Oh, that'd be awesome. I actually thought, I think a collaboration would be brilliant. You know, like, I don't know what it is. My skills are still stuck in the 2010s, you know, kind of in a position where I'm like, I don't know what I'm supposed to do. So I'm kind of putting feelers out there and see what sticks. Never got a reply after that. I was like, Oh, was there something I said? Uh,
You know, and I, and I messaged, I don't know if I said this last week, you can tell me if I said this last week. I don't know if I'm repeating myself here, but, um, a podcaster that I really like, I'd love to collaborate with her and, um, I sent her a message, uh, and she wrote back and her, she didn't, she didn't write back. She didn't say anything. And then I commented on one of her sub stack posts and she says, Oh yeah, I got your email. I'd love to, I'd love to do that. Uh, I'll email you tonight. I've just been swamped. Well, I never heard a reply back from that. I'm like, do I bug her? Whatever.
I think I met before, but it's all of that. So I had another one recently as well, where somebody reached out and they wanted to do a bunch of short videos. So they actually had surprisingly a very successful YouTube channel that I was like, wait, nine million subscribers, 15 million views on a lot of videos. So they're getting more views than they even have subscribers, which is crazy. So I'm like,
Uh, this is crazy. And they put out like one or two short, like 15 to 30 second videos that are mostly 3d based. And I'm like, Oh, that's right. And my skill set, uh, 3d I'm a 3d video guy. Speaking of my background again, you know, I didn't really bring that up. I'm a video motion graphics and a 3d dude. Um, but so 3d was my big break in the industry. Um, of what, how I got started, but, um,
So he was like, yeah, you know, you want to do this? He sent me like a script. He goes, I don't really do visual storyboards, but I do a descriptive storyboard. Here's what I'd like to see read through it. I was like, yeah, this is no problem. Super straightforward. No big deal. And then he was like, yeah, you know, let me know what rate would be and if these timelines would work or what you would think. And maybe we can work something out. And I was like, oh, man, if I could just do this and work on these YouTube videos, that would be sweet.
Zach Hendrix (16:35.63)
And it'd be fun to be part of a successful channel and it even looked like kind of fun, kind of a fun channel. And so I write him back and I was like, yeah, you know, here's my range of rate. It would kind of depend on a few things. We just have to chat about that. But here's a range timeline is no big deal. But, you know, we've never worked together. So I can't say for sure that it's no big deal. I'm not sure everything that you're looking for.
But from my standpoint, if you think I can get that done easily in this amount of time, no, no problem at all. I go, the only thing is, is that I go, some of your animations are medical based and I go, medical is not really my thing. I haven't done that before. I don't know that much about it, but I go, your other stuff that you do. A hundred percent. I can do that. No problem. Cause he, and even said, he goes, would either one of these work for you? I go to the medical one, maybe not the other one for sure. I could do those. Never heard anything back.
I'm like, you've reached out to me. I think this is so weird. I'm like, how do I write back? Hey man, never heard back. Uh, you still want to work together on something or no. You just kind of feel like you're desperate. Um, you know, are you like, are they looking for somebody who's persistent? You know, because I know this person I'm talking about the podcast, she's getting, getting tons of requests on a daily basis. She's just constantly fielding other people's responses and replies, comments.
So I'm like, she's saying, there's a voice in my head that's, that's imagining that she's saying, man, I wish people who would just be more consistent, you know, I'm tired of guys who just don't take the first move or don't aren't persistent with what they want and are too passive. And I'm like, is that just a criticism of me? I'm just, I criticize myself for being too passive or am I just reading the room and being like, you know what, if she really wanted it, then she would be like, this is a great idea. I'm going to pursue it. But like, maybe she's too distracted and actually not a good fit anyway.
So I did my job, I put my feeler out there and like, I'm not going to chase anything. It doesn't want me back. You know, like it's. Absolutely. And, and that's what I struggle with too, because I am not, um, a lot of the times the best communicator. And I feel like as I've gotten older, my short -term memory has just slum it. Like I, I have more and more experiences where I'm like,
Zach Hendrix (18:52.334)
on my way to go do something and five seconds later I forget what I'm going to do and I'm like, what am I doing in the kitchen? Am I doing up here? I'm like, oh, I'm trying to get a glass of water. That's why this cup is in my hand or something like that. Like my short -term memory is going to crap. So people that know me well, I will tell them frequently. I'm like, it is not a bother. You are not bothering me. Please, please, please.
You're not my babysitter, but don't let me forget to do this for you. I want to do this for you I'm excited about doing this for you, but I might forget or it's like I need to pay you for this thing Don't let me forget to pay you. You're not a bother. You're not a hassle. It's me being a jerk and I'm forgetting It's not because I don't want to do it. I'm just forgetting to do it So yeah, so then I take that mind and Mike is it just maybe with them that they're like No, they just forgot and I'm just trying to remind them
But I'm like, we have no rapport built. So I also don't want to hassle because there are, there've been plenty of times in work and businesses where I'm like this guy every single week is emailing me and I'm trying not to be a jerk and back to get lost. I don't want to work with you. Getting to that point of like, please stop hassling me. It's not going to happen. Like take the hint and, uh, and letting go. Like, is that what you're trying to tell me? So yeah, I never, I never quit. That reminds me of a story. Um,
So my girlfriend, she, she and I went to this coffee shop, uh, here in our town, like two, two, three years ago, and she had just been starting her freelance copy editing business. So she got business cards printed and there's a whole bulletin board where people can post their business cards. And so she put her business card up there, you know, like a proud moment, like, Hey, she's officially in business. She's putting it on the bulletin board. And so we celebrated that. And.
a couple of weeks, maybe a week or two goes by and she gets an email from this dude. He's like a local editor, a former editor at a newspaper, local newspaper. He's a copy editor. He just wants to email and talk shop. Um, and so she got that email, but she kind of felt funny about it. Like felt like there was a little bit of like, uh, insincerity or maybe a creepiness of this energy. She's like, I don't know if I trust this. So she just kind of ignored it. He follows up like two weeks later. Hey, just wanted to see if you got this, uh,
Zach Hendrix (21:06.382)
Got my, got my email, you know, uh, I'd send another copywriter looking to talk shop and she's like, I don't want to talk shop with anybody. Like I I'm looking for business. I don't really know. It's a little bit of an odd thing. If somebody reached out to me and was like, Hey, you want to talk about making videos? I'm like, I mean, who the hell are you? Like, yeah. And imagine if you're like a woman and then some guy emails you asking if you want to talk about making videos. It's kind of like, well, there's something different here, you know, because of that. Exactly. So, you know, anyway, long story short.
two, three years go by, she's gotten like five or six emails from him off and on different times. And one of them was even saying something like, I've looked at your website, like I mentioned something about her looks or her professionalism or whatever. And so she kind of just is getting more creeped out and she's, she decided to message him, you know, last year, whatever, like, no, I'm not interested. Sorry. You know, and then he's, he replies like, oh, okay, okay. No worries. But then.
You know, weeks or months go by and she'll get another email from him out of the blue. And she's like, so pissed. And she's like, stop. I can't. So, you know, she's getting really freaked out and we can't go to this coffee shop. And just last week I was there working on, uh, working on my newsletter or something like that. And I'm, and she calls me and she's like telling me about something, you know, whatever on the phone, but then he walks right in the door and I'm like, Oh my God, he's here. Like, Oh shit. I know what it looks like, you know,
Um, so he walks in and he's a regular at the coffee shop and you know, people know him. Nobody knows that he's like stalking some person on their bulletin board. Anyway, so he, uh, he reached out to her again one last time and she's like, I need to send us a real rigid stop contacting me now, please. I'm uncomfortable. You know, so she went ahead and did, went ahead and did that. And it was tough for her as somebody who wants to be polite and professional, but like you got to draw the line somewhere. So here's somebody who's embodying the very essence of persistence and how.
It is on the receiving end when somebody is being very persistent and won't take no for an answer. So I don't know where we're standing this dynamic. Yeah. Cause yeah. Well, and sounds like that guy's got some creepy stuff as well. Like reminds me of a story back when I was in my twenties, I was at a bar with some friends and we, it was at this new place and you know, uh, we're sitting there and we're having a good time and.
Zach Hendrix (23:29.486)
It's getting somewhat late at night, but not like closing time or anything like that. Like it's maybe like 11 o 'clock or midnight. And this drunk guy just comes over and, you know, not, not being overly rude or anything, but kind of just like, Hey guys, what's going on? Everybody's celebrating Friday and you're like, yeah, buddy. Good for you. You know, you're kind of just trying to be nice. And then it keeps going more and more. And we're like, dude, like.
What is going on here? And we start looking around for like staff. Staff is nowhere to be found. Like they've scattered. And we're like, and again, the guy was never like started calling us names. He was almost being like overly nice. And it started off because then he started buying drinks. Like, I'll take drinks off this idiot. Sure. Like, you know, 22 years old, I don't have a ton of money. That's fine. You want to buy us drinks?
Sure. And then we're kind of just laughing at this dude, but it was just getting overbearing and overbearing. And like this guy's like humiliating himself now. And I don't know what's going on. And he's a drunken mess. And it seems like he just wants to hang out with us. But then it's getting like embarrassing. Like we'd start messing with the plants inside of the restaurant. Like, dude, you don't need to do that. No, we're good. And I'm like, I don't need to babysit this guy. What is going on? And we're looking for staff like everywhere and they've scattered.
We finally managed to get rid of this guy and staff comes over and was like, oh, that's bubbles. I'm like, bubbles. Wow. His name is bubbles. And they go, yeah, everybody he's bubbles. He'll call himself bubbles. And actually, I think he did introduce himself as bubbles. Now that I say that, I'm like, he calls himself bubbles. But then we signed out later on, like they come over and like, don't worry, we're going to comp all of your drinks. That's just bubbles.
He does this every once in a while, but he's a regular here, pays a lot of money. So owners won't do anything about him or anything like that. I'm like, you really need to like get this dude under control, but I guess he's like some loaded dude. But so when they see him come in, the staff just scatters. They're like, sorry. Yeah, we'll just comp everything for you. No big deal. Sorry about bubbles. And I was like, what the heck? And apparently, so I was like, maybe in that coffee shop, they do know that this guy sucks, but just won't do anything about it.
Zach Hendrix (25:50.958)
Like, yeah, I know. Creepy dude. Yeah. And it's like, you have this radar, this like gut instinct that says like, I think this is creepy. And then, but this person's acting really nice. They've said everything polite and professional. Is it just me? Do I need to give this guy a chance? Am I missing out on an opportunity here? Because he says he can get me a job with the newspaper. You know, that's what he said. And imagine if I was in a position. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Right. So she's, fortunately, she's in a position where she's not desperate enough, where she's like, oh my God, I need a job.
Now, okay, so now take me in my situation. I'm feeling a little desperate for employment or something, but so say I get an offer and I'm getting a little creeped out by it, but there was an offer on the table that I'm like, maybe I should just cut, maybe I'm just off. Something's wrong with my perception here. Maybe I'm just being judgmental. So I should take this opportunity. And usually almost a hundred percent of the time, you know, you realize that it was a bad opportunity and there's a reason why you felt suspicious about it.
Yeah, it usually, it usually does go that way. Like you can usually sniff it out, but yeah, you're right. Sometimes in the desperation or this or that, you're like, something just is not feeling right here. Um, you know, and that is it. That being said, with everything going on with you, um, and stress levels, like I know for me, I'm still obviously very stressed. Um, and it kind of comes and goes with me. Like if I get some good news, um,
It'll help me out, but if I'm not, I'm like not sleeping well either. How are you sleeping? You sleeping at all or not really? Well, I've been sipping fine, but I wake up, you know, I wake up in the morning with the, my racing thoughts immediately start, um, with. Like a dreadful feeling. It's kind of like at the baseline of my existence that I have to walk around and pretend isn't there. Um, and when I feel into that dreadful feeling, it's just like.
precarity, this sense of anxiety about scarcity, about money running out, about not knowing which direction to go, because I don't see any open doors that are welcoming me other than something like this podcast, which is, you know, great direction I'm headed in that way. And, you know, the texts from my brother were a great encouragement about saying, keep going, you're on the right path. You know, just do this. Um, but I'm like, okay, but that's not solving the money anxiety. What do I do with this? And so I try to sit with myself, you know, in a, in a space, you know, you can call it meditation.
Zach Hendrix (28:13.582)
But I do set a timer because I'm like, I'm just going to give myself 10 minutes or I'm like free of this burden and to feel what it feels like to feel completely free of it. And, and this 10 minutes is like my sanctuary. So I'm going to give this to myself and notice if there was any thoughts that creep in that says like, yeah, this is bullshit. I don't think, I mean, it doesn't matter how many 10 minute meditations we do still not going to solve the problem. It's like, yeah, well, okay. You stay out there in this 10 minutes. We're going to feel.
the truth of who we are inside that's beyond all of that. And that we are the awareness behind all of those thoughts, all those worries, all those feelings that just seem to come and go depending on circumstance. It's like, that's not who we are. So in those 10 minutes, I'm going to feel, try to, try to be with myself in that moment as, as truthful as I can and give myself some, some support and some love and encouragement, you know, like that feeling that I'm looking to resolve with a job is like this feeling of, um, financial insecurity or ins...
safety, like lack of safety, like a fear of something of my home being ripped away from me or something like that. And that is like the fund foundational fear that this part of me is having. And then it thinks that if I go get that job, that it's going to solve that temporarily. It's going to put a bandaid over that precarity of survival. Because I feel like in order to survive, you have to have a job to get the money to pay for your rent, that nothing in life is free. So you have to like go work for it. And even if it hurts you, or you feel like a slave,
You don't want to do it. You have to do it. And so I'm fighting with myself and all of these things. So am I sleeping? Yes. But then I'll wake up with those thoughts and no matter what I do positively, or no matter how much work I put in, it's like, it's still not enough for that. It's interesting. Cause I think in some ways I might be the opposite of you where I'm pretty good at lying to myself throughout the day. But then when I'm going to sleep, as you can expect, then that's what's running wild through my brain. Like where I'm like,
You don't have a job. You're about to lose everything. This isn't going to go. How are you going to support this? And what went wrong with, you know, this recruiter? What went wrong with that? Or second guessing myself where it's like, I'll come back and, you know, a wife might ask me, oh, how's the interview going? I'm like, oh, I think it went really good. And then later on that night, I'm like, it went terrible. It went bad. It's all going to fall apart. You could have said this. You could have said that. And so I usually do in my if I'm doing a meditation, I actually somewhat tend to do the opposite.
Zach Hendrix (30:41.422)
Where I'm like, I'm going to take 10 minutes and just feel this. I'm going to feel it as well as I can live in that moment of what do you think went wrong? What's going bad? But then after that 10 minutes, you're done. Um, you don't get to feel that way anymore. And then that can sometimes help me where it's like, okay, your brain is obviously going. Let's let it go down that path a little bit. Think about what that means. Where's that going to go? Is there any new insight, any new thought, any new anything?
No. Okay. So now I can wrap this up and hopefully like let it go for a little bit. So yeah, in some ways I think I'm like, I'm really gonna lie to myself throughout the day. I'm like, oh, I'm not feeling it. Then I go to sleep and I'm like, oh no, I can't stop it. So it's like, I have to take time and really feel it and embrace it. So it's not this whole like, you're just bottling it up for a panic attack later on type of the thing where it's like, I need to live in that moment a little bit and embrace it.
And then, uh, and then I can kind of feel good where it's like, don't run away from the feeling of that, but, you know, also don't let it control everything. Cause yeah, when I go to sleep, it just controls everything. Yeah. Well, it's good that you said that because I think that is a really valuable thing to do. Um, and I recommend it personally, um, to choose to be in that energy that you're trying to run away from that feeling that, that is so scary to you, you know, if you can choose to say, you know what, I'm going to sit with this as it is and experience this feeling.
rather than try to get out of it by doing something to distract ourselves or trying to reassure ourselves with positive thoughts or any of the self. So it's like being radically honest with the truth of how you feel and accepting it. And I think that goes a very long way in helping resolve that because partially the reason why we keep attracting that situation into our life is because we've been resisting it and we have not been in acceptance of.
that fact of our existence. So it's kind of keep showing itself to us to give us that opportunity to feel it, you know? So the fact that you're doing that and choosing, I feel like it's a step in the right direction. Yeah. So do you, do you feel like throughout the day then with you kind of somewhat taking the opposite approach, do you feel then that you do a great job like throughout the day of like, Hey, I'm pretty good at living in the moment throughout the day. Sometimes I'm living in the moment too much.
Zach Hendrix (33:03.15)
So I need to kind of take a break from that. Is that kind of how, what you feel and you're, you're pretty good at that? Yeah, I feel like I am very much in my feelings most of the day. Um, honestly, like I, because a big part of my drive as a human is about truth and, um, about love. So anything that's going on internally, I recognize as something that needs love and attention and it's.
usually conveying something about my perception of reality that's out of alignment with the truth or something where I'm being reactive to something. So I kind of want to inquire. So I spent a lot of time looking inward. And in fact, that's kind of how I experienced reality most of the time. So it's like, sometimes I'm too introverted. A lot of the times where I'm too introspective and I often am overly aware of my thoughts, overly aware of the sensations happening in my body. So it's kind of like,
up, something happened, I'm all of a sudden feeling this dissonance, this unsettled feeling, this dread, and I kind of want to go into it and feel it and be curious about it. And to be honest, if it wasn't for me doing that, I probably wouldn't have the perspective that I had today. And if I was better at bottling it up and better at ignoring it, I could probably be functioning at a job right now, to be honest. I think because of my sensitivity and my feeling, I have said, no, I see the truth of this. And, you know, at least that's my perception. I...
You know, this is painful in the human existence. This is exploitation, you know, so that's why I don't an ignorance is bliss type of the situation where it's like, you know, maybe, maybe not knowing this would be helpful, which actually I'm, I'm glad that you brought that up. Cause I would love to know more about how you got into that because I am really fascinated about how you got there and the education that you have behind it. Like I.
You know, I don't know how you feel about this. I'm not using necessarily the word lightly, but for lack of a better term, almost like a spiritual leader. Like you seem to be very educated in those. And I'd love to know kind of how you got there. And last time we talked, I know that maybe a lot of this was kind of, you know, uh, the spark of that was leaving go media, um, some big things in your life at that point. I want to talk a little bit more about then what it was like.
Zach Hendrix (35:23.342)
leaving Go Media and how you ended up coming to that decision as far as I know that, you know, it was maybe starting to not be quite as inspiring. There was some personal things going on. Um, but what, what that was like, and do you remember that moment when you're like, I can't do this anymore and I need to leave and how all of that went? Yeah. So people have been following my journey during the, the milkhead, the freelancing, the early Go Media days, the early WMC Fest days.
I felt like I was on this upward trajectory where I was, I was accomplishing everything I set out to. I, everything I dreamed of, like life was getting cooler and cooler and better and better. And like more awesome. I felt I was getting more money, of course, at the company, more respect, admiration, building my profile, speaking opportunities. I felt like I was becoming the leader that I knew I was supposed to be in like the design community as an artist. So fulfilling this trajectory from a child of like, I want to be a famous artist or I want to be an accomplished working artist.
And then where that took me, you know, through college and all of the journey. So then we get to this point in like 2012, 2013, right around there. And I started to just feel this overwhelming sense of like apathy and dread with all of work and everything going on with it. Like we would have these weekly meetings or these annual meetings where we would all get together and talk about the year, talk about our accomplishments and our goals for the next year.
And at that point I started to feel drawn to having no goals. Like I don't want goals. I want something more pure. So I had, I was being attracted to minimalism and I got onto this blog called Zen habits. And he wrote about like eliminating things in your life to feel this like sense of space, the sense of freedom and calm underneath all of the stuff that you have. And I was starting to get this low grade depression and this moodiness that I just couldn't shake. I started to feel like I want to take naps in my car when I was in the middle of the workday, go media. So it's like.
I couldn't do sitting on my computer. I could barely get myself to do the projects that were in front of my plate. And the workload of WMC Fest on me was like astronomical. It just felt like this huge weight. I just felt like I was going to drop all these balls that were juggling in the air. And it was just so much pressure to do it, to put it on, and also to make money for Bill and for Go Media, because I didn't want him to lose any money on this. And I didn't want to disappoint any of the people that were really looking forward to this or felt like it was this.
Zach Hendrix (37:47.694)
great thing in their life. I didn't want to disappoint anyone. So I just carrying this huge load and then my, my ability to work just started to shut down and I just couldn't do it. So I'm like trying to distract myself. I'm going to coffee shops and working at the coffee shop and I'm like, I'm just going, I'm not even going in the office. I'm, they've got a couch in the office and I would like literally go over there and lay down for 10 minutes. I'm like, Oh my God, can I just get away from this? I just feel so much pressure. Like,
The world is too demanding. You know, I can't get away. I can't let anybody down. Um, and so that depression, I started to keep track of my moods using this app called Moody, um, some iPhone app back in the day. And I was like judging, you know, writing down my moods and I was like seeing it'd be like a five, a four, three, two, seven, you know, and it's like trying to keep track of myself. And so that's when I began to get into this like quantified self tracking your moods, tracking, uh, you know, journal entries and stuff like that. I wasn't journaling yet. I didn't get into that yet, but.
This was the first time I started to like pay attention to how I was feeling and keeping track of it. It wasn't until I think early 20, no, actually I remember New Year's Eve, 2012, going into 2013, I went to the New Year's party that we always go to with the friends that I used to hang out with in high school. Except half of them weren't there and there was just some other friends. And I mean, we were still going there, me and my ex -wife. And I remember telling someone when they asked how my year has been, I said,
I didn't have a good answer for them. And normally I'm so excited to tell them about everything that I've been doing. Like, Oh my God, I've got this going on. And then I'm like, Oh, I feel like my life is really hard right now. I don't understand that. And it's like, what is hard about it? I'm achieving all of my dreams and blah, blah, blah. Nobody wants to hear about somebody who's got a lot of success and how hard it is. It's just, so I felt embarrassed that I felt this way, but I told her, I said, I've been feeling really depressed, honestly. And that was the first time I ever told somebody that I was feeling depressed. I didn't even tell.
My ex -wife, I think she knew, but I never really used those words. Sometimes it's easier to tell like almost like some random stranger. Exactly. It has zero impact type of a thing, but you know, good to get it off your chest. Exactly. And then maybe a few weeks or months later, I decided to tell my business partners and I'm sitting there in the office over AOL ends and messenger or whatever messenger we had. I forget. And I messaged Bill from across the office and I'm like, Hey Bill, I think we need to, can we talk about something?
Zach Hendrix (40:08.622)
And he's like, sure, Jeff. And I was like, my heart was pounding so hard because I felt so scared to tell him that I'm not feeling good about myself or work or the company, you know, or where we're going. I know this was bad news for me that I was delivering and he was understanding, you know, he was like, oh, we kind of figured something was going on with you, you know, and we're wanting to take as much time as you need and we can talk about it or whatever. I thought they were going to make fun of me or shame me.
Or tell me that I'm lucky to have this job, which, you know, that did happen, but, you know, it wasn't like the main sentiment. They, when we did talk about it, they brought that up. How like, maybe, you know, is it, is it just all in your head? Do you need to go to therapy? Do you need to read this book about feeling good? You know? Well, yeah, it sounds like they came, they came at it from a place of help though, as opposed to, you should be grateful. Like, I don't know, isn't this what you want? You want this job? Like, it sounds like they were trying to come, were they trying to come at it from a place of being?
helpful and it is, it's kind of like in some ways ignorance that are naivete where it's like, no, that's not really, it's not how to look at it, but thanks for saying it, but no. Yeah. They, I think Bill was quite understanding. He's dealt with depression and him himself. I know. Um, I think he, he had taken some antidepressants and then he had told me that many times running this company was like a huge weight on him emotionally. And he said he would stay up all night crying. So he shared some stories.
of his own like pressure that he was building, but he kind of had this like, sort of like build this resilience and strength to like not let it get you down, you know? And so that's kind of the impression that I had. And same thing with my other business partner. He, he, uh, kind of had this impression that like, don't let it get me down. Like life is a struggle. Life isn't supposed to be easy. So, you know, the advice as well. Absolutely. Very follow the advice. And I didn't, I felt like.
That wasn't exactly what I needed to hear kind of, um, because to me, it felt a little bit about like the problem is still on me and I need to fix myself. Exactly. Back in the ring, you know, and because I felt like that was not really what I needed to hear. I was like, what is it that I do need to hear? And I was trying to give that to myself. So I got into, well, before I even knew anything about that, Zach, it was on.
Zach Hendrix (42:28.206)
So late 2013, I, this is the thing that kickstarted the spiritual awakening aspect. Um, I believe I was researching like some self, not self -help guys, but like more productivity guru people like Tim Ferris or, um, Nathan Barry, he wrote this book called authority, and then he later went on to found convert kit. Um, so there's kind of internet marketing lifestyle design gurus that wrote right about doing things like meditation and stuff like that, or like, um, designing your life.
Anyway, I've been reading some of his blogs and then I think he was, there was an interview with a dude on the passive income podcast. And so at that time I was into the passive income podcast because you know, we built stuff like that at Go Media. It was like business focused, but the guy that he was interviewing was a dude talking about emotions and talking about how emotions work with humans and computers because he was building like a technology company that understood emotions. Um, and long, long story short, I think that.
That technology went into be built into Facebook. So they like know how you feel so they can like target ads to you. But the core of this guy's ideas was talking about this thing called the ego. And it's the first time I ever really heard people talk about the ego or your sense of self in this particular way, where who you think you are, meaning I'm Jeff. I'm this graphic designer. I'm the founder of WMC Fest. I have written this book. I've done all these things, essentially the things I would put in my Twitter bio.
Well, like those weren't really me. And I'm like, I know that's true on a deep level. So it's like, I kind of started pulling at this thread. Where does it lead? And I kept listening to this guy's podcast. His name is Sean Webb. He wrote a book called how emotions work in humans and computers. He had a podcast about this and he, I watched his YouTube and he, he, uh, broke it down in the most like brilliant way, to be honest. He said, like, here's your sense of self and here's all your attachments.
And like other things that you identify with, like your favorite sports team, your political party, your family, everything in your life that youth, that's part of you that you think you identify with. So say for example, how close it is that you identify with it. Like if you're really attached to your family, for instance, really identified with your sense of self. If somebody were to attack them or criticize them, you personally feel criticized or attacked and you want to defend them. And so he had this equation that he built where he was like,
Zach Hendrix (44:47.79)
Your sense of self plus like your attachment based on how much you value that attachment equals how much of an emotional reaction you're going to get out of this thing. And the based on whether they judge it positively or negatively, it's going to affect your mood based off of this equation that he built. It's really interesting, you know, so basically something a lot like the Cleveland Browns, my favorite football team. I really identify with them as like a hometown kid, you know, blah, blah, blah underdog. So they're part of my identity. And now when they do well,
I feel really good when they do bad, I feel really bad. And that's because of my attachment to their, to the outcome being positive or negative. Right. And so I was seeing how I was like riding these waves constantly up and down emotionally based off of what I cared about and what I was judging. And so I just got this idea of he, he talked about meditation. And if you could sit there and look and watch all this stuff, you don't have to identify with any of it. You can simply observe it as phenomenon happening and you don't have to be swept up in those waves of like.
high and low based off of like what's happening, you know, based off of how attached you are to these things. And that's not your true self. Your true self is this awareness behind all of that. And so that idea was something that really stuck in my mind. And that's the threat I used to pull and that got me into learning about spirituality from like a Buddhist perspective, got me more into meditation, mindfulness, and various other spiritual stuff that that's much, much more we can go into. So would you say then that from...
I don't know in retro, you know, with the power of retrospect now that some of the stuff going on at GoMedia or the decision to leave and all that was too much of your identity was wrapped up in GoMedia success or failures. And so now you're, that becomes very stressful. It's like, I've got to keep this thing moving. I have to keep this thing moving. And it eventually just kind of burns you out. And was it, did any of that have to do, or was it even more so like,
Look, I just started biting off more than I could chew. I said yes to way too much and then it became monumental and I didn't know how to stop it. At that point I'd wanted to make everybody happy. Was it somewhere in those or what are you saying? Yeah, no, that's a good point. That all was there. Wanted to make everybody happy. Saying yes to too many things. Biting off way more than I could chew. The pressures that I felt to not let my business partners down made me want to stay and keep doing it. Keep showing up.
Zach Hendrix (47:13.102)
But that had been happening for a while and it's just like building up, you know? And so I really wanted free to be free. I wanted to leave. I just wanted to escape and to go to the far end. I started, so Pinterest had come out right around that. And I started building at this Pinterest board of like landscapes and destinations that felt very remote. And it was kind of emblematic of where my consciousness was at the time of what I was attracted to. I was attracted to like that house. It's like in the middle of a vast mountainscape that nobody's around and it can just be him.
I just, I saw, I wanted that simplicity. I wanted to get rid of everything. And that's terrifying because that means I need to step away from, you know, everything that I've got going on, but it felt like relief and I really craved it. So it's kind of like, you know, whereas Bill was like, maybe you just need some time off to take a break from go media, you know, why don't you just take a sabbatical? So he, he thought that that's all I needed. So it's like, okay, well, why don't you take, why don't you take a year off and then we can.
see how you feel. And I said, I don't really know if that's what I want, but yeah, maybe you're right. Maybe we will regroup in a year and see how I feel, but like, let's just, I need to take some time off for sure. So, um, after a year, I'm like, I can't go back, you know, because you move during that time, or did you stay in Ohio when you did that year off? So after I quit, um, my final day, I was, I think the end of 2014.
December 2014. So January 2015 is my first day of like my new life, so to speak. And I still carried over a lot of stuff from go media. Um, and I, and I didn't go anywhere because I was still living with my ex -wife at the time. And at this point, I kind of knew about, uh, we were planning to get a divorce, but when I decided to quit go media, I had no idea about getting a divorce. So it's not like that was already going on. That happened simultaneously.
So I wasn't planning on traveling or going anywhere. I was not planning on leaving. Yeah, I know. I was getting a lot of doubts about the marriage too. I was feeling very ambivalent and I was feeling like something was wrong that I couldn't put my finger on. And so like the whole year that was, this was happening to me, I kept getting signs in the marriage that like things were not right. Like, um, she, my ex -wife would be like gone unexplainably for a while. And then when she came back, when I asked her about it, she gave me this very cryptic answer.
Zach Hendrix (49:37.07)
that was like, well, that's not like you. I'm like, okay. I mean, I'll give you the benefit of the doubt. Like, sure. Why would I have to believe any otherwise? But that kept happening a few times. And I started to have dreams that she was having affairs with my friends and people I knew. And I would wake up and it's like, this like feeling of betrayal was like, Oh, yeah. I feel that. And I'm like, there's no evidence in my life that that's even happening. Sure. Um, eventually the day came where I found out and then that's when the shit hit the fan and um,
Basically the truth started to trickle out and I realized that she was having multiple affairs and you know, things like that. Uh, it was, so I started to care more about learning the truth of what happened than any sort of betrayal. It's like, okay, at this point, just tell me what's going on because I can't live in darkness anymore. Like I need to know what's real. I've got a lot going on with, with, with Go Media and with everything here. I care a lot about the truth. So this is when I started to develop this like intense passion and value for truth. Um,
Because to live in authentically and to live in pretending, I just can't do it. I have, it's hard. I know we can't know everything, you know, and I can't like, she, you know, she deserves her private space. I don't need to know everything that's going on with her, but like the feel like you've been led for, for a long time in one direction when reality was completely the other way. And you're like living in one reality and she's living in another and not telling you. And there's actively harmful. That's that was.
traumatizing, you know? Yeah. But at that point I was like, this also needs to go. I'm like, I didn't, I resisted getting a divorce at first because I was like, we can work this out. We can work this out. Okay. I can, we can forgive that, but she wasn't really willing to give up the lifestyle that she created for herself. And, um, she wanted me and she wanted both. She wanted the cake and she wanted the experience. And I totally understand where she's coming from. You know, we.
her emotionally, but she was going through her own depression. And so I totally understand where she's coming from. I don't really hold any hard feelings towards her, but this was what happened that got us to separate. And I think right before I found out, I actually prayed and I said, if I'm going to need, I mean, if I'm, if I have to divorce, like I need to know for sure, like I need a real sign that says this is what I need to do. And so then I got hit with a hammer. I'm like, Jesus. Wait, wait, literally got hit with a hammer. No.
Zach Hendrix (52:04.75)
There was no hammers actually involved, but, but like talk about like getting hit with a huge ass sign. I mean, it's like, wow. I didn't even buy it then. I didn't even really buy it then. It took me, it took her unwillingness to work through it. To be like, maybe, maybe we need to separate. And as soon as we decided that we needed to separate, I felt like the, the, the ball started rolling in a direction where it's things started to pick up and it felt relieving and it felt good. This is what we need to do. Yes. Yes. Yes. Take care of it. Um,
Yeah. So that happened right around the time that happened to 2014, 2015 too. So all this has started happening at the same time. Did you have, what did you turn to for help during that time? Did you have friends, therapy? Was it books? And I, cause I guess in that regard, things in those, in those circumstances can get pretty bad for the individual, but did you.
have help or what, what do you think eventually was able to get you out of, uh, a little bit of that funk and go like, okay, I might still be depressed, but I feel good about moving forward this way. Um, like I, I am feeling positive about the situation now. Yeah. Well, it was definitely my meditation and that path, that path, cause that's, and I did this morning routine. So, um, for people who are listening, I wrote this whole book about it called wake up the morning routine that will change your life.
And to be honest, that is the thing that, um, set me up before I even heard the news about the affairs or any of this, I started doing this to kind of deal with the depression. So in 2013, I think it was June, 2013, I, I read the book, the miracle morning by Hal Elrad. And then I started learning about meditation and the ego and these like healthy habits from like the blogs and habits. And I was like, if I can just carve out some time to do these, cause I couldn't fit them into my day, like effectively. So I was like, if I can just wake up early.
And what Leo Babouta of Zen Habits called Keystone Habit, I think there's a book called The Power of Habit. So I got really into habit change and like, if I can get this, I started waking up at like 5 .30 in the morning. So I give myself this like time where I had these like sequence of habits that I did, starting with like 10 minutes of meditation. I'd make myself a smoothie every day. I would watch YouTube videos based on the topics that I was really curious about that I've always wanted to watch. I started to get into audio books and.
Zach Hendrix (54:29.87)
Personal development. So I was attracted to this genre of personal development, uh, books, self -help, if you will, but not really success oriented, but more like emotion, healing, uh, spirituality stuff. So I started to follow that direction and having that morning routine, allow me to read that work on it. And I would go do walks. I would do a little exercise and this started to feel like me time time for Jeff, you know, whereas the rest of the day was time for me to produce and perform for others. And even though I was doing a lot, I was benefiting a lot from it.
I felt like I wasn't serving myself in a really, truly authentic way. So that's what this time was. And I did this for a whole year and it really changed my life. This is when the meditation started and the out of body experiences happened. I mean, we can get into that later, but that year was pivotal. And, um, so that was the bedrock, the foundation that was like supporting me through this transition. I felt like it prepared me to handle this honestly. Like I read Eckhart Tolle's book, the power of now was, was brilliant at that time.
Just when I needed to hear it was, I felt like I was being following these signs of synchronicity. So there's felt like a thread where like the universe or God or something was gifting me things in my life for me to discover that I was just like, okay, the next thing, the next thing, the next thing. And it was just like. That's pretty fascinating then that it is then it is even more so like a journey of self discovery where it's like, you know, um, I know for me in times of depression or things like that, it's like,
a lot of my instinct sometimes was to turn to friends or things like that, but really the most awakening things were things that I discovered on my own as opposed to, oh, you should do this, you should do that, you should do that. And while that can be helpful, I think also the other side of that, just being 100 % honest is these were very unqualified people to make these recommendations. Not to say that they were not good friends or smart or good people, but that's not really what their life was about, you know.
When you just call your high school buddy or something or, you know, your neighbor, whatever, like these are just random people. They're not, you know, self -help focused people are like a therapist, which is what it what it should be. It almost feels more right when you discover it on your own. Like you said, you know, you started having these dreams about it. And then when it's real, when you have these thoughts, you're like, actually, this makes the most amount of sense to me. It's almost like some weird epiphany.
Zach Hendrix (56:54.766)
That happens at a time. You're like, no, this makes perfect sense. And then you might surround yourself by like minded people. They're like, oh, I'm not the only one that that thinks this way or that does that or oh, this routine does work. Because, yeah, and I remember when that book came out. And I think for me personally, that book was almost like a seed planted in my brain that I didn't realize at the time, because I had read that and it.
It's not that it didn't, to say it didn't speak to me, I think is not doing it a service. It just means I was not a place in my life where I realized that it would be useful. Um, it was kind of like a lack of experience and I just hadn't gotten to that point. And then when I did that, I was like, Oh, you really need to focus on the small, simple things in your day. Create a routine. You're going to get up. You're going to make your bed.
Then you're going to go and you're going to do a couple pushups and you're going to feel good about that because now you've accomplished two things in your life. And then you're going to go up and you're going to brush your teeth and you're going to feel good about that. So I go, oh, it's one less thing for me to worry about. I have something else and this morning routine thing. And I was like, no, that I've read this before. And I'm like, oh yeah, I've read that in Jeff's book before. And then you start to realize like, oh, I've also read it over here. I've read it over there, but it's like the seed was planted in my brain that then it feels like an epiphany at the time that it's like.
Man, this thing is feeling so good and everybody building their own routine. I know that, you know, my wife and I were just talking about it recently. That's like, I do feel the best when I'm sticking with my routine. And I know that maybe I'm getting more depressed or something like that when I'm not sticking to it. Well, you know, I just saw a video recently that somebody made that was like, man, I feel like such crap these days or something. And then the other party goes, did you eat healthy? No.
Did you take time for yourself? No. Did you exercise? No. Did you spend time with friends and family? No. Like they go down this list and it's like, no, no, no, no. It's like, are you sleeping? Are you doing this? No, no, no. Like, gee, I wonder why you're not feeling great. Great point. It was kind of fascinating. So, yeah, I think that it's interesting that a self discovery when you kind of you didn't really come across it yourself, but you really did. And it feels like you can make it your own.
Zach Hendrix (59:20.75)
It just feels more natural that way. That being said, I want to wrap things up here a little bit because I do want to get into, I feel like we're right on the verge of the spiritual awakening, which I'm super fascinated about. So I hope the listeners are as well. I've been holding back on a lot of things and there's a lot of stuff that if you've been following Jeff for a while that.
To me is spirituality has been really, really fascinating. And while I don't fully understand that, that's why I'm hoping to get more out of it. And I think that we'll have a great next episode for all of that. So for anybody listening, we'd love to hear what your routines are. Please leave a comment. Let us know what what's worked for you. Some simple steps and love to hear about it and maybe share some of that on future episodes. That being said.
Um, anything that's been inspiring for you recently? Well, uh, as I mentioned before the, before we started recording, there was this talk by the CEO of Patreon. Just, you just released it. It was from South by Southwest earlier this week. Um, and it was about the creative, um, the future of creative work online. And this guy is an incredible speaker. If anybody's seen him speak, I mean, it's ridiculous.
Cause he's this artist, this musician that grew up in the early 2000s, posting on YouTube, posting on my space. You know, anybody who's our age will know what this was like on the early internet as an artist, getting your work out there. And when the follow button was introduced, he talked about that was like a life -changing experience because you as an artist have a fault, have the opportunity to not only just put your work out there, but now have people subscribe to you and then they're going to see the next thing that you put out. And so that development, which I think was around.
2007 or something like that. That changed his life and he blew up with his band. And then in 2013, I think he decided to create Patreon. And then we all know what Patreon is now, because you know, your favorite podcast is probably like subscribe to our Patreon. So anyway, he built this big billion dollar business, you know, with with doing Patreon. But anyway, this talk was about how he believes that the death of the follower is happening. And here's how to
Zach Hendrix (01:01:43.182)
where the future he's where he sees the future going. And, you know, it just talks about what he's doing with Patreon and stuff, but that was a really inspiring video. But I'm also wondering if I'm drinking the Kool -Aid on his vid on his charisma, because I don't know if his, if this utopia, this positive outlook that he thinks that are here for creatives, for artists and musicians is actually a reality. Or if it's just the pitch for his, his, uh, Patreon and this guy is just a gifted speaker and gifted at storytelling that I was just like hooked. And I think.
You know, it's like you get this high, this buzz after watching it and you're like, Oh my God, I think I'm going to sign up for Patreon. Shit. I'm going to like email my followers. Hey guys, donate to my Patreon. I've got some like, you know, behind the scenes stuff for you to check out, but like, I know how it's going to go. I'll do that. I'll get like zero. Nobody wants to do it. And when I, and I had him read some of the comments and people are like, I've had Patreon for years and I get like hardly any engagement on my posts. I get way more engagement in discord or on, you know, whatever. So.
That was something I watched and it was cool. If anybody wants to look it up, it's Jack Conte, a South by Southwest on YouTube. Yeah. I'm going to check it out this week, but yeah, it does kind of remind me. Did you see that? Just do what? I just got a like, but I like bubble. Oh yeah. They built that into Riverside now. Same thing that they do. I like Google drive. Like if I do a thumbs up or something, I think it'll do or yep. There you go. Yeah.
Then it'll work. Oh shit, that's not where it is. Yeah, there's like certain visual cues now that it'll pick up on and throw in there. That's, uh, that's probably, I guess, not that many, any of this. There's another one that's like, and another one where like balloons started coming up randomly. Weird. Which is ridiculous. No, I'm going to check that one out because I know that there's been things like that for me where I'm like, I love all, and then I'm like, this is not, it's not.
True. I was like, you're trying to get me to do this, this and this. It's fascinating. I went in. I've been watching some TV shows and some movies recently. I watched Oppenheimer again for the second time. I think I loved it even more the second time around. It made a little bit more sense. And I just love Christopher Nolan. He just seems to be getting better and better and better and better.
Zach Hendrix (01:04:07.502)
Same with Denis for his Dune series. He's just getting better and better. But then I started watching this TV show called Shogun. That's it's a remake series, but you know, much more higher production value. That's been fun to watch as well. And I read this book called Project Hail Mary. That's a sci fi book. And did you ever hear did you ever hear watch the movie The Martian with Matt Damon?
Yeah, yeah, it was pretty interesting. It's the same author that wrote that book and the tone of voice you can tell right off the bat, they're like, Oh, this is obviously the same author, the tone of the characters and all that. But that was a really fun sci fi movie, lots of science in it. But also, you know, they have a sense of humor. It feels very casual. It's very well written. It was a fun, hey, we need to figure out how to save the world.
Sci -fi thing where this guy kind of has this lone adventure where the fate of the entire world is on his shoulders And he's up in space all by himself But it was a really good book, I guess it got the rights for it got bought by Ryan Gosling and We'll see if they can make it into production or not. They said that they're gonna try to go into production this year
With it. So he owns the right. So I imagine he's going to produce and star in it if he can, but we'll see if it actually gets off the ground or not. Plenty of people have bought rights to books and they never ever make the movie. Um, so we'll see, but that was, that was a, uh, a fun one as well. So I've been trying to do more reading, which reading for me is audio books. So, yeah, yeah, same here. I got a Kindle this year and I've actually been using, it's actually helped me a lot with as far as reading goes and highlighting stuff.
A lot better than physical books, to be honest. My attention doesn't last very long and I get sore with like my neck hurts and you know, that kind of thing. So audio books and Kindle. I'm just such a slow reader that I think I'm so slow that then it starts to put me to sleep. Even if I'm interested in it, I'm like, I get so tired so quick, but I make sure that I read every word very specifically. And I think that that's why it's so slow. Like,
Zach Hendrix (01:06:25.262)
I talked to my wife, my wife is a very fast reader. I think last year she either hit 35 or 50 books that she made. And so she reads books very, very quickly and is always reading, but she'll go, yeah, but I bet that you remember more. And I'm like, Oh, I remember every little detail because if I forget a part, I'll go back and reread it again until I know every single specific thing. But then that makes me just such a slow reader where she's just kind of like, ah,
And then breezing right through it. I cannot do that at all. I don't know how she does that. So what about in audio books, do you listen at one X speed or do you go to 1 .5 or two? The funny thing is, is that I didn't even really know that that was a thing that people did until like two weeks ago. And so I've always listened at one X speed. And I was like, Oh, I didn't.
Even I was like, why would people do that? I never really understood why. And then I was like, oh, I guess I can listen. So I listened. I just the first thing that I listened to it faster than one X was our podcast. I went back and listened to like that the first two episodes and I was playing them at one point seven five just so I could see everything that was that was being said and all of that. But yeah, I don't know if I can pull myself to do it. I almost feel like this is how stupid I can be sometimes.
But I almost feel like I need to appreciate the art the way that the artist is meaning for it to be appreciated. Like I don't want to change the circumstance. Almost like if I go to a restaurant, I don't want to change the chef's recipe and say, Oh, take this out, add this, do this. Like I want to taste it the way that you intended it to be. I almost feel like I'm violating the audio book if I do it too fast, which is just dumb.
Uh, well, no, that's interesting. I guess it's different if you were to watch like a movie at two X speed listening to an audio book, because sometimes the audio narrator is going slow intentionally. And that 1 .5 sounds more natural a lot of times, but I've been listening at 1 .5, two X speed for years that I feel like I can't listen to anything at one X because it feels so slow. And so, and I think I've made myself talk faster. I talk faster.
Zach Hendrix (01:08:44.75)
then I think I would have. It's like my brain is accustomed to fast information. So I'm like, that makes a lot of sense. Well, on that note, it's been a good chatting again. And thank you, everybody. Please like, subscribe, helps us out. Take a look, leave us some comments, even if you like, hey, the thumbs up.
It's helpful as we get this thing off the ground. So thanks for sticking around with us and we'll chat with you again soon. Take it easy everybody.
Zach Hendrix (01:09:33.55)
That's stupid, I'm not doing that.